Consciousness and Self in Vedanta | Swami Sarvapriyananda _ University of Michigan (part_2)
Consciousness and Self in Vedanta | Swami Sarvapriyananda _ University of Michigan (part_2)
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Sri
Ramakrishna
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The
place it's redundant it's not redundant because the practices he gave
he makes an interesting point
I understand what the Buddha was trying to do I understand it from a Darwinian perspective from a modern psychology perspective but having understood it I still cannot overcome suffering
I understand what the Buddha was trying to do I understand it from a Darwinian perspective from a modern psychology perspective but having understood it I still cannot overcome suffering
I still
fall into the same traps the hedonic strap the pleasure trap I fall
into the same traps again and again even understanding from an
evolutionary perspective what is happening by practicing some of the
meditation techniques are given by the Buddha or in the Buddhist
tradition I find
I am
able to manifest my understanding in my day to day life even to the little bit
I have practiced I'm quoting him in that sense in a very there's a new movement called naturalized Buddhism
I claim I would offer that Advaita Vedanta some of some forms of Buddhism are very much applicable very much real entirely verifiable Vivekananda said
I am firmly convinced that the claims of religion must be subject to the same tests which scientific claims are subject to if by that we find something is false no matter how beautiful we have to give it up because ultimately that which is not false in the long run it is not conducive to good but he says
I have practiced I'm quoting him in that sense in a very there's a new movement called naturalized Buddhism
I claim I would offer that Advaita Vedanta some of some forms of Buddhism are very much applicable very much real entirely verifiable Vivekananda said
I am firmly convinced that the claims of religion must be subject to the same tests which scientific claims are subject to if by that we find something is false no matter how beautiful we have to give it up because ultimately that which is not false in the long run it is not conducive to good but he says
I am
confident that the core truths of religion will stand the test and
him see uses a word which I found very significant in terms of the hard the problem of consciousness Vivekananda he says why is confident he says because religion has an internal mandate which science does not by internal mandate
I think this direct first-person experience is meant I rest my case thank you very much thank you the microphone will come to you guess there's a hand you please tell us your name and then next we'll go here there are microphones on two sides alright the first is why do we need it at all was that the question really broadly speaking
why do we need all this at all same thing which the first thing which
I said which Buddha's whole project starts with that in fact the entirety of ancient Indian philosophy whether Buddhism or the different schools of Buddhism Jainism the different schools of Orthodox Hindu thought we are all concerned with overcoming suffering and attainment of lasting profound peace and joy now nobody will ask why do I need to overcome suffering we I, do I, do this because I want to overcome my suffering I do this because
him see uses a word which I found very significant in terms of the hard the problem of consciousness Vivekananda he says why is confident he says because religion has an internal mandate which science does not by internal mandate
I think this direct first-person experience is meant I rest my case thank you very much thank you the microphone will come to you guess there's a hand you please tell us your name and then next we'll go here there are microphones on two sides alright the first is why do we need it at all was that the question really broadly speaking
why do we need all this at all same thing which the first thing which
I said which Buddha's whole project starts with that in fact the entirety of ancient Indian philosophy whether Buddhism or the different schools of Buddhism Jainism the different schools of Orthodox Hindu thought we are all concerned with overcoming suffering and attainment of lasting profound peace and joy now nobody will ask why do I need to overcome suffering we I, do I, do this because I want to overcome my suffering I do this because
I want
lasting happiness and joy those are fundamentals we are we seek that
and so this Advaita Vedanta what it claims is what you are searching
for is already there
we are like people who have been left maybe by a rich uncle you have been left millions of dollars and you're on welfare why because yes technically I'm a millionaire but I don't know which bank it is in I don't have the checkbooks and
I don't know where it is technically I'm a millionaire but practicing right now you need to notice it claim it and work on it to manifest it in life that Vivek and I said not just knowing it he said manifesting the divinity within very interesting simple words even schoolboys school children these days memorize these definitions but manifesting the divinity within so that perfection has to be manifested in our day-to-day life in our thoughts words and deeds second ego in Vedanta there are precise definitions you will be interested to know even consciousness I'll come to that later but the first ego what is ego in Sanskrit in Vedanta ahankara doesn't have to be valent if in fact all the schools of philosophy they are very precise definitions the reason they have precise definition says they went through
we are like people who have been left maybe by a rich uncle you have been left millions of dollars and you're on welfare why because yes technically I'm a millionaire but I don't know which bank it is in I don't have the checkbooks and
I don't know where it is technically I'm a millionaire but practicing right now you need to notice it claim it and work on it to manifest it in life that Vivek and I said not just knowing it he said manifesting the divinity within very interesting simple words even schoolboys school children these days memorize these definitions but manifesting the divinity within so that perfection has to be manifested in our day-to-day life in our thoughts words and deeds second ego in Vedanta there are precise definitions you will be interested to know even consciousness I'll come to that later but the first ego what is ego in Sanskrit in Vedanta ahankara doesn't have to be valent if in fact all the schools of philosophy they are very precise definitions the reason they have precise definition says they went through
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Sri
Ramakrishna
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Along
process of debate tremendous you know gladiatorial combat not
physical combat not violence but rather intellectual combat Buddhism
and classical Hinduism they went to a period of nearly a thousand
years of debate primarily on two points existence of Atman existence
of God and it led to a great refinement of Hindu philosophy of Indian
philosophy not just into philosophy Buddhist philosophy Jain
philosophy and the different schools of Hindu philosophy so
everything had to be precisely defined and defended at
an ego ahankara a vimana at McCann Tucker nobility which means that which appropriates to itself the functionings of everything around it and in the mind so pain I am unhappy this flash of desire
an ego ahankara a vimana at McCann Tucker nobility which means that which appropriates to itself the functionings of everything around it and in the mind so pain I am unhappy this flash of desire
I want
when did the eye-popping from this want but that eye which
coordinates all these activities and appropriates it to itself that's
what is that ego it's also a function of the mind it is also
something revealed by consciousness it's an important point really
important to hold on to it you are not the ego
I am NOT the ego the feeling of I in the mind I am listening that's also a thought in the mind consciousness is what reveals the ego in the famous hymn by Shankar Acharya we have all heard it most of us didn't and Rupa her shivoham shivoham
I am NOT the ego the feeling of I in the mind I am listening that's also a thought in the mind consciousness is what reveals the ego in the famous hymn by Shankar Acharya we have all heard it most of us didn't and Rupa her shivoham shivoham
I am of
the nature of shiva and of the nature of pure consciousness and bliss
the first line Manobo the anchorage it Tani Nahum what does it mean I
am NOT the mind I'm not the ego I'm not the mind I'm not the
intellect and not the memory I'm not the ego a hunk are an arm if you
translate into in English what an interesting thing it turns out to
be I am NOT I is that paradoxical no right now we see by this method
of
the seer and the seen are you aware of the functioning of the eye
I mean the vertical eye not this are you aware of the eye yes the ego functions it has a function it is a psychological function of course when we say egotistical
we mean something else arrogant presumptuous and so on but ego has a function it appropriates itself a vimana, Mika Aleman means possessive possessing everything sois is the Sanskrit word mind I mind it's a function of the mind it's not you there's a cyclic let's try this is interesting actually
the seer and the seen are you aware of the functioning of the eye
I mean the vertical eye not this are you aware of the eye yes the ego functions it has a function it is a psychological function of course when we say egotistical
we mean something else arrogant presumptuous and so on but ego has a function it appropriates itself a vimana, Mika Aleman means possessive possessing everything sois is the Sanskrit word mind I mind it's a function of the mind it's not you there's a cyclic let's try this is interesting actually
I can
actually demonstrate what is exactly the witness consciousness and
what is the ego let's see and this was something given by Greg good Good II
he is a psychologist working in a counselor working in New York and very heavily inspired by Advaita Vedanta so he pulls that those traditions into his counseling so he says try to locate the ego will grow to do an exercise just relaxed and follow it within yourself the feeling of
I draw a mentally no you have to keep your eyes open and look at me because I'm gonna show something mentally draw a horizontal line through your face mentally parallel to the ground horizontal line to your waist mentally now the sense of
I where do you see it below the waist or above the waist, it would be really weird if you see my eye is located in my knee now all of all almost I guess everybody would say it is above the waist very good now draw another line through the chest like this parallel to the ground where is the sense of
he is a psychologist working in a counselor working in New York and very heavily inspired by Advaita Vedanta so he pulls that those traditions into his counseling so he says try to locate the ego will grow to do an exercise just relaxed and follow it within yourself the feeling of
I draw a mentally no you have to keep your eyes open and look at me because I'm gonna show something mentally draw a horizontal line through your face mentally parallel to the ground horizontal line to your waist mentally now the sense of
I where do you see it below the waist or above the waist, it would be really weird if you see my eye is located in my knee now all of all almost I guess everybody would say it is above the waist very good now draw another line through the chest like this parallel to the ground where is the sense of
I
phenomenologically directly notice it is it below this line or above
this line about yes everybody says about now draw one more line to
the neck parallel to the ground the sense of I is it below this line
or above some people might find a location of the eye in the chest
but most people would say somewhere here when
I say I
it is someday here and that's very natural actually because most of
the sense organs are in the in the head and the face is
extraordinarily sensitive you would feel more sensation here
I am know here's Tom everything is here almost more or less you most people feel it here all right now draw two lines mentally like this try setting the head mentally like this where would the eye be located on this eye means the ego feeling of
I this side some of you are saying how many would you say you feel it here somewhere here behind ya raise your hands you feel that way most of you do that most of you do that focus there most people would report somewhere behind the eyes are somewhere behind the temple somewhere you would if you were first pressed to give a location for the feeling of isolation egos and shape sensation is there stay
with it notice one thing first two things you have to notice one thing is clear it's an object you are locating it you are aware of it it it's a thing no matter how subtle it's a thing your eyes sensation is a thing and it's an ego it's a thing it's not you second thing most important you the witness consciousness is the one aware of the eye yes now does that make the sense that consciousness one warning does not don't ever try to catch hold of it you will never you'll fail because it's always the one trying to catch hold of it so you cannot objectify it don't try to objectify it know that you are that tough to ama see that is that is that that is what you are ok these are very profound questions
I am know here's Tom everything is here almost more or less you most people feel it here all right now draw two lines mentally like this try setting the head mentally like this where would the eye be located on this eye means the ego feeling of
I this side some of you are saying how many would you say you feel it here somewhere here behind ya raise your hands you feel that way most of you do that most of you do that focus there most people would report somewhere behind the eyes are somewhere behind the temple somewhere you would if you were first pressed to give a location for the feeling of isolation egos and shape sensation is there stay
with it notice one thing first two things you have to notice one thing is clear it's an object you are locating it you are aware of it it it's a thing no matter how subtle it's a thing your eyes sensation is a thing and it's an ego it's a thing it's not you second thing most important you the witness consciousness is the one aware of the eye yes now does that make the sense that consciousness one warning does not don't ever try to catch hold of it you will never you'll fail because it's always the one trying to catch hold of it so you cannot objectify it don't try to objectify it know that you are that tough to ama see that is that is that that is what you are ok these are very profound questions
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Sri
Ramakrishna
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I will
comment on it strictly from the Advaita point of view because of you
you know much more about it from the medical point of view and it's
an ongoing subject of intensive research all three sleep anesthesia
and death now first sleep why he asked what is the Advaitic view of
our consciousness during sleep has two aspects dream sleep and
deep sleep even physiologist would say that they have found distinct
differences in REM sleep and non-rem sleep REM sleep is Right rapid
eye movement sleep associated with a dream if you those movements are
going on if you wake up the subject you repeat or she will report
dreaming a non REM sleep the brainwaves I
I I read a different and associated with deep sleep in Vedanta they are called swapped nine sushupti respectively Swapna means dream sleep and sushupti deep sleep why is it important why is it of concern to us because clearly deep sleep clearly in dreams we are aware there's some kind of awareness going on because we experience dreams of our experience but in deep sleep the question mark will be if you insist on the persistence of consciousness, deep sleep seems to be an unconscious state deep sleep seems to be an unconscious state what does Vedanta say about that do you understand the problem then the response will be interesting Vedanta says that deep sleep is a very interesting case it proves our point it seems to prove the opposite that consciousness disappears so there is no such thing as a persisting consciousness you say the Vedanta says consciousness remains intact during deep sleep the Vedanta view of consciousness is not that there is an absence of experience during deep sleep it is an experience of the absence you see what is the Vedanta perspective is the first person experience and it's easy to understand because it's your experience how do you experience waking a sight and sound and want and sensations and thoughts within you experience dreams pretty much in the same way though it's all in the mind and how to do you experience deep sleep look at the words how do you experience deep sleep blankness as nothingness Vedanta would say what has happened in deep sleep is as
I I read a different and associated with deep sleep in Vedanta they are called swapped nine sushupti respectively Swapna means dream sleep and sushupti deep sleep why is it important why is it of concern to us because clearly deep sleep clearly in dreams we are aware there's some kind of awareness going on because we experience dreams of our experience but in deep sleep the question mark will be if you insist on the persistence of consciousness, deep sleep seems to be an unconscious state deep sleep seems to be an unconscious state what does Vedanta say about that do you understand the problem then the response will be interesting Vedanta says that deep sleep is a very interesting case it proves our point it seems to prove the opposite that consciousness disappears so there is no such thing as a persisting consciousness you say the Vedanta says consciousness remains intact during deep sleep the Vedanta view of consciousness is not that there is an absence of experience during deep sleep it is an experience of the absence you see what is the Vedanta perspective is the first person experience and it's easy to understand because it's your experience how do you experience waking a sight and sound and want and sensations and thoughts within you experience dreams pretty much in the same way though it's all in the mind and how to do you experience deep sleep look at the words how do you experience deep sleep blankness as nothingness Vedanta would say what has happened in deep sleep is as
we fall
asleep our the gates to the world shut down we don't transact with
the world but we watch movies in the mind and TV show and then that
shuts down also the dream shut down in the mind shuts down we are not
aware of the external world we do not dream dreams we exist without
any kind of objects to experience in deep sleep according to Vedanta
there is consciousness but nothing for consciousness to experience
because only when the mind wakes up according to Vedanta deep sleep
is the sleep of the mind waking is the waking of the mind dreaming is
the dreaming of the mind consciousness one unchanged until the mind
wakes up
nothing is presented to consciousness so consciousness is like light
I'll show you something if you can see this it's a very interesting
experiment here this place is full of like these are my engines idle
talk doesn't mean light is not there it's there but there's no object
for the light to be reflected up yeah I
I got this idea many many years ago I was in India presenting a paper in the famous now on the University website of the ancient Buddhist University is a modern now on the university, they are now and my paper was on consciousness in Vedanta pretty much same
I got this idea many many years ago I was in India presenting a paper in the famous now on the University website of the ancient Buddhist University is a modern now on the university, they are now and my paper was on consciousness in Vedanta pretty much same
I wanted
to explain how consciousness could exist without giving any
experience what is an experience in what is consciousness in Vedanta
consciousness plus object of consciousness is an experience you are
aware and there is something to see your experience of seeing aware
and something to hear your experience of hearing and so on if there
is no object awareness is there but it Allu means what does it tell
you me the absence of objects that is deep sleep so in that
conference what happened was I was trying to explain how do
I
explain this there are professors and there are a lot of Buddhist monks
also sitting there and they had a projector you know the way they use
it for PowerPoint enough and it has a particularly strong white beam
of light but it's projecting there and the beam comes here you trust
your hand into that your hand is blazing right with that light you
may remove it you can't see anything here this is black that effect
so in
deep sleep there is consciousness
but no object of consciousness
deep sleep there is consciousness
but no object of consciousness
I
remember in the Institute of culture in Kolkata about 20 years ago
there was a conference 15 years ago there was a conference on
consciousness in philosophy and neuroscience and the neuroscientist
was did they couldn't as you might agree there as you might
understand they couldn't come to any agreement at all the definition
of consciousness itself the philosophy professor the Sankey a
philosophy professor who is an American Larson he asked
a question to the neuroscientist according to modern neuroscience is
there consciousness in deep sleep and the neuroscientist said no
there is no consciousness in deep sleep and professor Larson said
well in Sanka in Vedanta there is only consciousness in deep sleep no
object of consciousness
okay how do you prove that well the traditional answer in Vedanta is when we wake up from deep sleep we say I slept happily I didn't know anything you know in every culture you have expressions like this I slept like a log where Dantas is how do you know that are you inferring it I went to sleep at 10 o'clock from 10 to 12
okay how do you prove that well the traditional answer in Vedanta is when we wake up from deep sleep we say I slept happily I didn't know anything you know in every culture you have expressions like this I slept like a log where Dantas is how do you know that are you inferring it I went to sleep at 10 o'clock from 10 to 12
I dreamt
and then 12 to 4 nothing's that must have been deep sleep inferred 12
- for deep sleep we'd never do that we wake up and immediately we
know there were dreams and they were peaceful nothing how do you know
that so Vedanta says in Sanskrit term is sukima hum
I swapped some I slept happily knocking chewed away edition I did not know anything that itself is a kind of knowledge the knowledge of not knowing anything even more simply takes a simple fact deep sleep even before modern science and not REM sleep and non-rem sleep all these concepts deep sleep is a concept recognized in every society in the world every every culture in the world since ancient times
I swapped some I slept happily knocking chewed away edition I did not know anything that itself is a kind of knowledge the knowledge of not knowing anything even more simply takes a simple fact deep sleep even before modern science and not REM sleep and non-rem sleep all these concepts deep sleep is a concept recognized in every society in the world every every culture in the world since ancient times
how did
they know such a thing is there if there is no consciousness about it
so deep sleep there is consciousness that is the Advaita position
second about coma about anesthesia about the anesthesia I'll just say one
thing I know what you're talking about because
I have about anesthesia consciousness during anesthesia patient who went to an operation said that swami deep sleep in anesthesia is not the same even from a perspective first-person perspective they feel very different Anastasia is simply nothing Blanc doesn't seem to be consciousness aware of nothing not even that not even deep sleep you go out and you come out again that's almost like that
I have about anesthesia consciousness during anesthesia patient who went to an operation said that swami deep sleep in anesthesia is not the same even from a perspective first-person perspective they feel very different Anastasia is simply nothing Blanc doesn't seem to be consciousness aware of nothing not even that not even deep sleep you go out and you come out again that's almost like that
so would
you say consciousness is there in anesthesia what would be the
Vedantic understanding of anesthesia Vedantic understanding would be
you do something to the body - which which makes the mind in a
inoperative you basically put the mind to sleep because you're
putting them whatever bodily aspect on
which where the mind operates basically, you're switching up the hardware or putting into sleep mode so the all the come the programs also go into hibernation there that's what's happening from abinanti perspective you're doing something to the body that is the brain or nervous system where the the mind cannot function in more consciousness this reveals that almost like deep sleep now very interesting if you google it just caught my eye two weeks ago there was a paper which was mentioned in across in general news also consciousness found in anesthesia do you anybody came across that
which where the mind operates basically, you're switching up the hardware or putting into sleep mode so the all the come the programs also go into hibernation there that's what's happening from abinanti perspective you're doing something to the body that is the brain or nervous system where the the mind cannot function in more consciousness this reveals that almost like deep sleep now very interesting if you google it just caught my eye two weeks ago there was a paper which was mentioned in across in general news also consciousness found in anesthesia do you anybody came across that
I came
across that, it is if you google it you'll find it just a recent paper
it's a medical paper what they are saying is also very interesting
why does it feel different this is not that consciousness is switched
off during anesthesia the memory is completely switched off during
anesthesia that's what they are saying and that's, of course, a study
on particular types of annotation that not everything
I can
just offer that moving on to death what happens at death is from a
Vedanta perspective again the physical body remember it from the pedantic perspective we have three aspects to yourself to each of us
pure consciousness unchanging light of awareness that's what
we are a layer of the mind which is called sukshma sharir a subtle body and then the physical body the biological body which is born develops ages guys now when this physical body dies the subtle body suksham sharir a-- can no longer operate in that's
we are a layer of the mind which is called sukshma sharir a subtle body and then the physical body the biological body which is born develops ages guys now when this physical body dies the subtle body suksham sharir a-- can no longer operate in that's
what
then we call it transmigration it moves on from this body and then is
reborn somewhere else in another body it needs new hardware or body
is wet where they would call it so it new it needs new machinery to
function if the physical body is damaged beyond repair now what you
are saying a pedantic approach would be if that frozen person that the body is damaged beyond repair the subtle body would have left and so
it will not come back even if you warm up that body and if the subtle the body is still there it's waiting for you to warm it up so do warm it
up who is going to start functioning again but then if there might be
damage physical damage subtle body can't work if certain parts of the
brain is damaged these are the three responses I would like to be
questioned them
I'll
come to you yeah next there yeah please yeah you first tell us your
name and ask the question and then the gentleman back there correct
most of us are on autopilot unless we are suffering too much unless
it's intensive pain
we sink into a kind of easy acceptance of things status quo nobody is perfectly happy but we said we can't be perfectly happy it's just like this and we carry on there are a few it doesn't just take suffering it also is a quest for knowing what is the real what is that what this entire game about what's the point of life what are we really and what is this life all about very soon we're going to get old and maybe get a disease and then die sooner or later and it'll all be over probably so what was it all about so this question comes up fundamental question
we sink into a kind of easy acceptance of things status quo nobody is perfectly happy but we said we can't be perfectly happy it's just like this and we carry on there are a few it doesn't just take suffering it also is a quest for knowing what is the real what is that what this entire game about what's the point of life what are we really and what is this life all about very soon we're going to get old and maybe get a disease and then die sooner or later and it'll all be over probably so what was it all about so this question comes up fundamental question
I think
these two questions suffering and that but
we are confronted with an inevitable what seems to be an end a death it leads to that the philosophical quest we all have it even when
I'm okay with it I'm relaxed I'm okay with it it's this is what just like is I still turn up for Abaddonn to talk on a nice afternoon why because I'm hoping to find some insights into life yes and this has been a fundamental quest all throughout history that such a possibility exists it's not that this is just what life is there is a possibility of overcoming suffering there is a possibility of finding deep meaning and purpose in life the deepest possible it this is the claim of not just advaitha every spiritual tradition throughout the history of humanity and it's it's a how did I become a monk for example so when
we are confronted with an inevitable what seems to be an end a death it leads to that the philosophical quest we all have it even when
I'm okay with it I'm relaxed I'm okay with it it's this is what just like is I still turn up for Abaddonn to talk on a nice afternoon why because I'm hoping to find some insights into life yes and this has been a fundamental quest all throughout history that such a possibility exists it's not that this is just what life is there is a possibility of overcoming suffering there is a possibility of finding deep meaning and purpose in life the deepest possible it this is the claim of not just advaitha every spiritual tradition throughout the history of humanity and it's it's a how did I become a monk for example so when
I read
these books of awaken and there's a kid it really pulled me because of
I thought if I go the way my dad and mom have gone you know I just do what they have done maybe life will be a little better maybe a little worse that's it but if
I thought if I go the way my dad and mom have gone you know I just do what they have done maybe life will be a little better maybe a little worse that's it but if
I pursue
this what Vivekananda sees and these teachers say it is such
a thing as God there is such a thing as an immortal soul there is
such a thing as finding out the secret of life and it's not some
crazy person who's saying this this is that sort of accumulated
wisdom of different religious traditions across civilizations I
thought it was really about while thing to pursue you don't have to
be a monk to pursue it but everybody so you want pleasure you want
success wealth so happy pleasure and belt they were valid goals of
life within the limits of Dharma morality and ethics now that's the
that's for everybody but also ultimately for everybody was prescribed
moksha spiritual freedom that there is an ultimate purpose to like
that there there is something to know the question
who am I what am i the same five great unsolved questions of philosophy really what
who am I what am i the same five great unsolved questions of philosophy really what
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